In this episode of Cash Management Chat, host Andre Blanchard welcomes special guest Richard Mills, Head of Client Relationships and Solutions Engineering at Interac, to discuss the evolution and innovation of Interac within the Canadian payments ecosystem. Together, they explore how Interac’s solutions are transforming corporate payments, with a focus on enhanced security, real-time transactions, and the introduction of new digital products. The conversation also highlights the future of payments in Canada, including the development of the real-time payment rail and strategies for combating fraud. Listeners will gain practical insights into navigating the rapidly changing landscape of treasury and liquidity management. The transcript is available in English and French.
Please scroll below for the French transcript.
Intro: Welcome to Cash Management Chat, a podcast series focusing on the dynamic world of treasury and cash management. Tune in for expert insights and practical advice to navigate today's financial landscape brought to you by the Corporate Cash Management Team at CIBC Capital Markets.
Andre W. Blanchard: Thanks for joining us on the second edition of Cash Management Chat, the Corporate Cash Management podcast series. I'm your host, Andre Blanchard, Managing Director and Head of Corporate Cash Management, Global Transaction Banking at CIBC Capital Markets. It's my pleasure to introduce today's guest, Richard Mills, who heads up the client relationships at Interac, who's joining me today to discuss the Interac journey, evolution, innovation, and digital prosperity. So let's jump in.
Richard, thank you very much for joining the podcast. Let's start by maybe a bit of a broader view. So give us a bit of a background on who Interac is in the Canadian payment ecosystem, what your role is there, and maybe the career journey in the payments industry.
Richard Mills: That sounds great. First off, thanks a lot for having me. And yeah, I'd love to chat a little bit about what we do. I think the first thing to chat about is just a lot of people see the yellow logo when they're going to check out at a cash register, but they may not know exactly what we do. And the way I usually introduce us is if you live in Canada, you probably have two of our products with you at all time. So between your purse or your pocket, you probably have a cell phone that has access to Interac e-Transfer.
and you probably have a bank card that has access to Interac debit. So pretty much every Canadian, they have those two products with them at all time. And if you multiply that by the number of Canadians that are out there, we're very honored that basically 20 million people choose to use Interac every single day. So between e-transfer, between debit, and between verification, 20 million people are using us every day. In terms of my role here, I've been with Interac for the past four years. For the first two years, I was the Interac e-transfer specialist. So I was rolling out our business products to the FIs. And then for the most two recent years, I've been our head of banking relationships. Previous to that, I was actually working in cash and treasury management. So if you have any hard questions you want to grill me on in terms of e-transfer and e-transfer for business, I'd be happy to take those.
Andre W. Blanchard: May take you up on that.
Richard Mills: Perfect.
Andre W. Blanchard: Thanks for that high level intro, much appreciated. Let's talk a bit about the space that I'm focusing on. So let's double click on maybe some of the top use cases for interacting in the corporate space.
Richard Mills: Yeah, absolutely. The main thing that we're going to be doing with corporates is going to be in-rack e-transfer and specifically e-transfer for business. So why don't I dig in there for a little bit. So if you think about what e-transfer is, every regular Canadian, we call them a retail client, every retail client knows what an e-transfer is. Not all the business clients know exactly what e-transfer can do for them. In terms of e-transfer for business,
We have a separate suite of products that has basically five enhanced features that businesses really have taken to. And to break those down, the first one is higher limits. So businesses or corporates can get access to up to $25,000 limits. And that's not just for the day, that's 25,000 per transaction with no rolling limits. You can send out a whole slew of payments. The second one is real-time decisioning.
So there's still a fraud model working in the background, but it doesn't take 30 minutes. It doesn't have that fraud delay, that situation you can end up with in a retail payment where you have to wait 30 minutes. Corporates can immediately get a yes or a no. The third one is account number routing. So where a regular person would only want to send an e-transfer via email or SMS, corporates often like to pay via account number. So we have that functionality where you can send it by an account number same way you would with an EFT.
The fourth feature being ISO remittance information. So anything that can go into an ISO file can go into an e-transfer for business. So it's a full payment load. You can have things in there like discount applied and what the payment date is. You have treasury workstation compatible ISO information coming with your payload. And then the fifth one is bulk. So we know that corporates don't always want to pay ad hoc. They want to pay bulk. So we're fully compatible with a bulk file upload. So with that,
sort of knowledge of what the corporate suite of e-transfer can do. Some of the key use cases that we use would be the first one being real time. So any payment that needs to go real time, you've really only got one option. e-transfer for business can go within five seconds every time. So your real time clients, great option there. The second one would be anyone who you don't have the account information for. So if you have sort of a distant relationship with someone where you have their email, but you don't have the account information, you've really got two options. You've got check and you've got e-transfer.
E-transfer has all sorts of advantages that checks don't, but that would be applications for government entities doing relief payments. It could also be universities, and it could be something like a class action lawsuit where tons of people are being paid and you don't have the information. So that would be the second one. And then the third one would be just checks in general. As replacement for checks, anything under $25 thousand, great application for E-transfer.
Andre W. Blanchard: So a lot of great innovative payments that you just described. And it sounds like Interac has been the cornerstone of payments for probably over a decade or so. So maybe talk to us a bit more about how the platform's evolved over the years to meet the ever-changing demands of our consumers and our business needs.
Richard Mills: Yeah, perfect. Interac has been around for a long time. So the origin of the company started in, I think, 1984. This was set up as a conglomerate between the banks. So it was a shared service center. Basically, any application that required interoperability between the banks could be done through e-transfer. Sorry, I said the wrong thing. Let me back up a little bit. Anything that required interoperability between the banks could be done through Interac.
So we started out with Interac Cash and then moving forward in the 90s, we launched Interac Debit. In the 2000s, we launched Interac eTransfer. Moving into the 2010s, we launched those eTransfer for business features. So that's in terms of where it's been going. Moving into the future, we have a whole bunch of new product lines coming up that we can talk about. And the exciting part is we have incremental progress that's happening to each one of those product lines and e-transfer has a bunch of evolutionary things that are going on and then we also have revolutionary things too. So we have two brand new product lines that are coming aboard which we can chat about too if you want to dig into those.
Andre W. Blanchard: Actually, I'd love to hear a bit about that. sounds like there's been a lot of innovation in payments over the decades. Maybe share some of the recent advancements or features that you've just mentioned.
Richard Mills: Really excited to talk about these. When I was saying at the start, know, everyone has e-transfer and everyone has debit. There are two more that are coming on board, which I think in the next 10 years, everyone's going to be using those as well. One is a new wallet that Interac is launching, which is called Kinect. So that is going to be a way to pay. But as I was sort of mentioning before, the flavor of Interac is if you need to have interoperability between the banks and you need to use your bank, you want to involve Interac. This is a wallet that will allow you to verify through your bank. So you'll be able to
go to the cash register, make a payment or make a payment online, but you'll be able to actually go and verify yourself through your bank and make sure that your bank knows about it. So a completely different way to have your fraud process taken care of before the fact instead of after the fact. So that's one of our new products coming up called Kinect and you can read about that at kinect.ca. The spelling is K-O-N-E-K dot C-A. And then the second one is the real time rail. So we are developing and we also will be operating the real time rail.
So as that comes aboard, Interac will be playing a key piece. And this is right in parcel with our strategy, which is to broaden access for Canadians. We will be the people facilitating that real-time rail, and new participants will be able to come in and use that real-time rail. So two really exciting things we've got coming up on the horizon.
Andre W. Blanchard: Oh, those are two great things. Be remiss if we didn't talk a bit about security when it comes to payments or cash management and treasury. So can you talk to us a bit about the security of Interac payments?
Richard Mills: Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm going to keep the corporate lens on this. I'll make it applicable to a corporate treasurer who's going to send payments. In terms of how e-transfer works, e-transfer is very secure. I'll talk a little bit about what's going on in the background that you may not know about. So three things that keep it secure. One is it's a domestic transaction only. So Interac e-transfer is available only within Canada. Two, it's capped at 25k. So you're
limit at making any sort of a fraudulent payment is capped at 25k. And the third one is we have centralized fraud monitoring on each transaction that goes. So in the case if a fraudster is getting unauthorized access to your account, they have to deal with those three things. So if they're going to try to choose between sending a wire or sending an e-transfer, if they're sending the wire, they're going to be able to send it overseas. They're going to be able to send essentially an unlimited amount of money. And they're not necessarily going to have any centralized fraud monitoring.
If they're doing it with an e-transfer, it's domestic, it's 25k and there is a system in the background that will be monitoring for fraud. So when it comes to comparing something like a wire to an e-transfer, all sorts of features that would make an e-transfer much more secure than a wire. If you're going to compare an e-transfer to something like a check, I don't know if we even want to go there on this podcast. mean, I think most corporate treasurers at this point ⁓ are very concerned about the fraud risks that are apparent with checks, and they do not exist at all for e-transfer. I don't think we need to run that comparison.
the other aspect I'd want to talk about is the fraud risks that are inherent in receiving an e-transfer. And this one is a little bit unique, where I was comparing wires in e-transfer going outbound. Inbound, it is a little bit of a different story. There is a very unique fraud risk for e-transfer that gets a lot of people concerned and they don't necessarily need to be so concerned about it and this one is called an intercepted e-transfer. So in the case where you are receiving an e-transfer, if you don't have auto deposit turned on, that e-transfer transaction will sit in your inbox. And so what that means is it's sitting there and at some point you need to click on it and you need to actually send it to one of your bank accounts. That's if you don't have auto deposit. Now there is a risk there that that e-transfer could be intercepted and what that would mean is if some fraudster has already hacked into your email account, they could be sitting there waiting for an e-transfer to come in. When it comes in, they can direct it to their own account.
That is something that a lot of people are concerned about. We do have very good processes though to remove that risk. The first one being auto deposit. So if I could have any sort of call to action here, please sign up for auto deposit. It means that that transaction is going to go directly into your account. It will not sit in your inbox. And if you do that, that interception risk is completely eliminated. It never comes up in the first place.
The second one is password hygiene. So one of the ways people get defrauded, not the only way, but one of the major ways is they will send an e-transfer to someone's email box and they will send the password also to someone's email box. And of course, if your inbox has already been hacked, both the payment and the information is all there. That's a big problem. So if you are not taking advantage of auto deposit, the one thing we would say is make sure you do not send the password in the same format that you send the transaction.
If you're going to send it via email, then text over the password or phone the password over verbally. With those two things in mind, the risk of having your e-transfer intercepted is very, very low.
Andre W. Blanchard: Excellent. Thanks for that added information and good call to action to everyone out there. We've talked a little bit about things that are underway and in place today. So let's talk a bit about the future. How do you envision Interac's role evolving as open banking and real-time payments gain traction in Canada?
Richard Mills: That's a great question. In terms of open banking, open banking means a lot of different things to different people. Some of the products we have out there today are already taking advantage of open banking. When I think of something like Interac Verified, which allows banks to transfer information to each other through Interac, that's already a form of open banking. So depending on what you're defining as open banking, we're sort of already there. The way I would want to talk about this, though, is what we're doing with the real-time rail is another sort of flavor of open banking that will allow more people to connect into a real-time rail and allow more people to pay in a manner that is outside of their traditional financial institution. And I would say that's the biggest thing we're doing right now with open banking. And as part of that, as I know we have this fraud lens on the conversation, everyone wants to be paid in real time. Nobody wants their fraud to be in real time. And so as part of that, we are also doing the real-time fraud monitoring for that real-time rail. And that's something I'm very excited about as well.
Andre W. Blanchard: Excellent. One last question for you. As two payment enthusiasts, what gets you most excited for the growth and future of Interac Payments?
Richard Mills: Without doubt, it's the real-time rail. We're very excited to be moving towards a real-time financial ecosystem. And I would say just for Canada, I'm excited for the real-time rail. We've seen all the modern economies are moving towards real-time ways to pay. And Canada will be moving towards a real-time pay as well. And as part of that building of the fraud systems to know that those things are secure is a huge thing that gets me out of bed in the morning, something that gets me really excited and we're going to be really excited to deliver it in the next sort of one to two years.
Andre W. Blanchard: Well, we're excited as well to see real-time rails in a secure fashion through great partners like yourself and Interac. So thank you, Richard, for taking the time to join the show today. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in.
Richard Mills: Absolutely, and thanks for having me.
Outro: Please join us next time as we continue to share the latest on the dynamic world of Treasury and Cash Management, helping you tackle today's financial landscape.
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Intro: Bienvenue à Cash Management Chat, une série de podcasts axée sur le monde dynamique de la trésorerie et de la gestion des liquidités. Écoutez des conseils d’experts et des recommandations pratiques pour naviguer dans le paysage financier actuel, apportés par l’équipe Gestion de trésorerie corporative de CIBC Marchés des Capitaux.
Andre W. Blanchard: Merci de nous rejoindre pour la deuxième édition de Cash Management Chat, la série de podcasts de l’équipe Gestion de trésorerie corporative. Je suis votre hôte, Andre Blanchard, Directeur Général et Chef, Gestion de trésorerie pour l’Amérique du Nord, dans la division Opérations Bancaires Mondiales chez CIBC Marchés des Capitaux. J’ai le plaisir d’introduire l’invité du jour, Richard Mills, responsable des relations clients chez Interac, qui se joint à moi aujourd’hui pour discuter du parcours d’Interac, de son évolution, de son innovation et de la prospérité numérique. Allons-y. Richard, merci beaucoup de participer à ce podcast. Commençons par une vue d’ensemble. Pouvez-vous nous présenter Interac dans l’écosystème canadien des paiements, votre rôle, et peut-être votre parcours professionnel dans l’industrie des paiements?
Richard Mills: Avec plaisir. D’abord, merci beaucoup de m’avoir invité. J’aimerais effectivement discuter un peu de ce que nous faisons. Je pense que la première chose à dire, c’est que beaucoup de gens voient le logo jaune lorsqu’ils passent à la caisse, mais ils ne savent pas forcément exactement ce que nous faisons. En général, je présente Interac ainsi: si vous vivez au Canada, vous avez probablement deux de nos produits sur vous en permanence. Dans votre sac ou votre poche, vous avez sans doute un téléphone portable qui permet d’accéder au service Virement InteracMD, et une carte bancaire qui permet d’accéder à Débit InteracMD. Pratiquement chaque Canadien a ces deux produits sur lui en permanence. Si on multiplie cela par le nombre de Canadiens, nous sommes honorés que 20 millions de personnes choisissent d’utiliser Interac chaque jour. Donc, entre Virement InteracMD, Débit InteracMD, et notre solution de vérification, 20 millions de personnes nous utilisent quotidiennement.
En ce qui concerne mon rôle, je suis chez Interac depuis quatre ans. Les deux premières années, j’étais spécialiste Virement InteracMD, responsable du déploiement de nos produits professionnels auprès des institutions financières. Depuis deux ans, je dirige les relations bancaires. Avant cela, je travaillais dans la gestion de trésorerie. Donc, si vous avez des questions pointues sur Virement InteracMD ou Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises, je serai ravi d’y répondre.
Andre W. Blanchard: Je pourrais bien vous en poser!
Richard Mills: Parfait.
Andre W. Blanchard: Merci pour cette introduction très claire, c’est très apprécié. Parlons un peu du domaine qui m’intéresse. Allons plus loin sur les principaux cas d’usage d’Interac dans le secteur des entreprises.
Richard Mills: Avec plaisir. Le principal usage pour les entreprises concerne Virement InteracMD, et plus précisément Virement InteracMD pour entreprises. Je vais détailler un peu. Si vous pensez à ce qu’est Virement InteracMD, chaque Canadien, que nous appelons client de détail, sait ce qu’est un Virement InteracMD. Mais tous les clients entreprises ne savent pas exactement ce que Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises peut leur apporter.
Pour le service Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises, nous avons une suite de produits distincts qui comprend cinq fonctionnalités améliorées très appréciées des entreprises. Pour les détailler:
Avec cette offre, les principaux cas d’usage sont:
Andre W. Blanchard: Beaucoup d’innovations dans les paiements que vous venez de décrire. On dirait qu’Interac est la pierre angulaire des paiements depuis plus d’une décennie. Parlez-nous de l’évolution de la plateforme pour répondre aux besoins changeants des consommateurs et des entreprises.
Richard Mills: Bien sûr. Interac existe depuis longtemps. La société a été fondée en 1984 comme un centre de services partagés entre les banques, pour toute application nécessitant l’interopérabilité. Nous avons commencé avec Interac Cash, puis dans les années 90 Débit InteracMD, dans les années 2000 Virement InteracMD, et dans les années 2010 les fonctionnalités Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises. Pour le futur, de nouvelles gammes de produits arrivent, et chaque produit évolue, avec des nouveautés progressives et d’autres plus révolutionnaires. Nous avons deux nouvelles gammes de produits dont nous pouvons parler.
Andre W. Blanchard: Justement, j’aimerais en entendre plus. Il semble y avoir beaucoup d’innovation dans les paiements depuis des décennies. Parlez-nous des nouveautés ou fonctionnalités récentes.
Richard Mills: Je suis très enthousiaste à ce sujet. Comme je le disais, tout le monde utilise Virement InteracMD et Débit InteracMD, mais bientôt deux nouveaux produits seront aussi incontournables. Le premier est un nouveau portefeuille numérique lancé par Interac, appelé KONEKMC (konek.ca). C’est un moyen de payer, mais aussi de se vérifier auprès de sa banque avant de payer, que ce soit en magasin ou en ligne. Cela permet de gérer la fraude en amont, avant la transaction.
Le second, c’est le rail de paiements en temps réel. Nous développons et allons opérer ce rail en temps réel. Cela s’inscrit dans notre stratégie d’élargissement de l’accès pour les Canadiens. Nous serons l’opérateur de ce rail, qui permettra à de nouveaux participants d’y accéder. Deux innovations passionnantes à venir.
Andre W. Blanchard: Deux grandes nouveautés. Parlons un peu de la sécurité des paiements Interac.
Richard Mills: Avec plaisir. Je vais adopter la perspective d’un trésorier d’entreprise. Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises est très sécurisé, voici pourquoi:
Un fraudeur doit donc surmonter ces trois obstacles. Comparé à un virement bancaire (international, montant illimité, pas de surveillance centralisée), Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises est nettement plus sûr. Par rapport au chèque, inutile d’en parler, la fraude sur chèque est très préoccupante, et ce risque n’existe pas avec Virement InteracMD pour les entreprises.
Pour la réception d’un Virement InteracMD, le risque unique est l’interception, si le dépôt automatique n’est pas activé. Dans ce cas, le transfert reste dans la boîte mail et peut être intercepté si le compte mail est compromis. Pour éliminer ce risque, il suffit d’activer le dépôt automatique. Sinon, il faut éviter d’envoyer le mot de passe dans le même canal que la transaction. Par exemple, si le transfert part par courriel, le mot de passe doit être envoyé par SMS ou téléphone. Avec ces deux précautions, le risque d’interception est très faible.
Andre W. Blanchard: Merci pour ces précisions et ce bon conseil à tous. Parlons un peu d’avenir. Comment voyez-vous le rôle d’Interac évoluer avec l’essor du système bancaire ouvert et des paiements en temps réel au Canada?
Richard Mills: Bonne question. Le système bancaire ouvert signifie différentes choses selon les personnes. Certains de nos produits actuels l’utilisent déjà, comme Interac VérifiéMC qui permet aux banques d’échanger des informations via Interac. C’est une forme de système bancaire ouvert. Le rail en temps réel est aussi un exemple, car il permettra à plus de gens de se connecter et de payer en dehors de leur institution financière traditionnelle. C’est notre grande priorité actuellement. Et, comme tout le monde veut être payé en temps réel mais personne ne veut de fraude en temps réel, nous mettons en place la surveillance de la fraude en temps réel sur ce rail, ce qui m’enthousiasme beaucoup.
Andre W. Blanchard: Une dernière question: en tant que passionné de paiement, qu’est-ce qui vous enthousiasme le plus pour la croissance et l’avenir des paiements Interac?
Richard Mills: Sans aucun doute, le rail en temps réel. Nous sommes très enthousiastes à l’idée de faire évoluer l’écosystème financier vers le temps réel. Tous les pays développés s’y mettent, et le Canada aussi. Construire les systèmes de détection de fraude pour garantir la sécurité est un vrai moteur pour moi, et je suis impatient de le voir en place dans les un à deux ans à venir.
Andre W. Blanchard: Nous sommes aussi impatients de voir arriver ce rail en temps réel, de façon sécurisée, grâce à des partenaires comme vous et Interac. Merci, Richard, d’avoir pris le temps de participer à l’émission aujourd’hui. Et merci à nos auditeurs pour leur écoute.
Richard Mills: Avec plaisir, merci de m’avoir invité.
Outro: Rejoignez-nous la prochaine fois pour continuer à suivre l’actualité du monde dynamique de la trésorerie et de la gestion des liquidités, et vous aider à relever les défis du paysage financier actuel.
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